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	<title>Comments on: $10,000 Indie Examples: HVX vs. Andromeda vs. Else???</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.joshoakhurst.com/2006/06/12/10000-indie-examples-hvx-vs-andromeda-vs-else/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.joshoakhurst.com/2006/06/12/10000-indie-examples-hvx-vs-andromeda-vs-else/</link>
	<description>An Ongoing Case Study in Art &#38; Commerce</description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2008 09:33:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: uomo</title>
		<link>http://www.joshoakhurst.com/2006/06/12/10000-indie-examples-hvx-vs-andromeda-vs-else/#comment-13632</link>
		<dc:creator>uomo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Feb 2007 12:41:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joshoakhurst.com/?p=214#comment-13632</guid>
		<description>The information I found here was rather helpful. Thank you for this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The information I found here was rather helpful. Thank you for this.</p>
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		<title>By: Indie Production: HVX200 vs Andromeda DVX at FresHDV</title>
		<link>http://www.joshoakhurst.com/2006/06/12/10000-indie-examples-hvx-vs-andromeda-vs-else/#comment-6492</link>
		<dc:creator>Indie Production: HVX200 vs Andromeda DVX at FresHDV</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jan 2007 07:17:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joshoakhurst.com/?p=214#comment-6492</guid>
		<description>[...] Josh Oakhurst has posted detailed analysis from a recent consulting gig, entitled &#8220;How to make $10,000 work for an HD production and post production package?&#8221; There are a few camera test clips at the end of the article. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Josh Oakhurst has posted detailed analysis from a recent consulting gig, entitled &#8220;How to make $10,000 work for an HD production and post production package?&#8221; There are a few camera test clips at the end of the article. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Josh Oakhurst Official Site</title>
		<link>http://www.joshoakhurst.com/2006/06/12/10000-indie-examples-hvx-vs-andromeda-vs-else/#comment-2321</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh Oakhurst Official Site</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Sep 2006 22:06:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joshoakhurst.com/?p=214#comment-2321</guid>
		<description>[...] I got over it. There&#8217;s a ton of equipment, and it all does cool stuff. I encourage anyone who caught the wide-eyed bug to step back and reevaluate why fancy gear made you happy in the first place. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I got over it. There&#8217;s a ton of equipment, and it all does cool stuff. I encourage anyone who caught the wide-eyed bug to step back and reevaluate why fancy gear made you happy in the first place. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Shaughan</title>
		<link>http://www.joshoakhurst.com/2006/06/12/10000-indie-examples-hvx-vs-andromeda-vs-else/#comment-1172</link>
		<dc:creator>Shaughan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jun 2006 23:22:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joshoakhurst.com/?p=214#comment-1172</guid>
		<description>I don't think it hurts to have an understanding of the process, either.  For my first film, I shot a 3 minute short that used a lot of the shots that I would need for my full blown film.

That film cost me $100 for catered food.  Nothing more.  The equipment was all purchased (I spent about 20K total on gear)so that it can be re-used over and over.

I knew every role of every crew member.  I taught the sound mixer and the boom operator their jobs.  Only the DP side of the fence was handled by my wife (who is a pro photographer by trade and DP via UCLA extension).

Now I have experience with the technical side of doing an HD film and my focus becomes one of pure story.  At the end of the day, it's just common sense.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think it hurts to have an understanding of the process, either.  For my first film, I shot a 3 minute short that used a lot of the shots that I would need for my full blown film.</p>
<p>That film cost me $100 for catered food.  Nothing more.  The equipment was all purchased (I spent about 20K total on gear)so that it can be re-used over and over.</p>
<p>I knew every role of every crew member.  I taught the sound mixer and the boom operator their jobs.  Only the DP side of the fence was handled by my wife (who is a pro photographer by trade and DP via UCLA extension).</p>
<p>Now I have experience with the technical side of doing an HD film and my focus becomes one of pure story.  At the end of the day, it&#8217;s just common sense.</p>
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		<title>By: Anthony D.</title>
		<link>http://www.joshoakhurst.com/2006/06/12/10000-indie-examples-hvx-vs-andromeda-vs-else/#comment-1071</link>
		<dc:creator>Anthony D.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jun 2006 16:28:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joshoakhurst.com/?p=214#comment-1071</guid>
		<description>I'd spend $9,999.98 on the script and .02 on the movie.

When will indie filmmakers learn that being a director means being a storyteller! Write a compelling story with fully realized characters and audiences will flock to see your movie even if it's a slide show.

If Kevin Smith were like these guys he would have neer made Clerks. Fortunately he was not. He chose badly shot B&#38;W 16mm with bad acting and virtually no directing 'style' and yet an entertaining story with characters we'd love to spend a whole day with let alone the 92 minute running time of that film. And it launched his career; which is the frequent goal of a first film, no?

It's about the story not the toys we use to tell the story.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d spend $9,999.98 on the script and .02 on the movie.</p>
<p>When will indie filmmakers learn that being a director means being a storyteller! Write a compelling story with fully realized characters and audiences will flock to see your movie even if it&#8217;s a slide show.</p>
<p>If Kevin Smith were like these guys he would have neer made Clerks. Fortunately he was not. He chose badly shot B&amp;W 16mm with bad acting and virtually no directing &#8217;style&#8217; and yet an entertaining story with characters we&#8217;d love to spend a whole day with let alone the 92 minute running time of that film. And it launched his career; which is the frequent goal of a first film, no?</p>
<p>It&#8217;s about the story not the toys we use to tell the story.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.joshoakhurst.com/2006/06/12/10000-indie-examples-hvx-vs-andromeda-vs-else/#comment-1068</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jun 2006 10:23:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joshoakhurst.com/?p=214#comment-1068</guid>
		<description>Just an after thought, sound is really half of the movie going experience. Abit it is the perversely 'silent' part. Recommend you talk to some students at SAE or FullSail, or those audio engineering schools, a creative mind with low rates can be had.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just an after thought, sound is really half of the movie going experience. Abit it is the perversely &#8217;silent&#8217; part. Recommend you talk to some students at SAE or FullSail, or those audio engineering schools, a creative mind with low rates can be had.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.joshoakhurst.com/2006/06/12/10000-indie-examples-hvx-vs-andromeda-vs-else/#comment-1067</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jun 2006 10:21:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joshoakhurst.com/?p=214#comment-1067</guid>
		<description>Perhaps this might sound a little odd, in Daniel's plan I see absolutely no reason that he should own a camera, lights, dollies or any grip gear for that matter. Basically Daniel's shooting a demo reel to show to investors, the delivery format for the demo reel will be on DVD. Which means, there's still no reason to shoot in HD, save alot of computing power and storage by using HD. Since he's going to compositing everything himself, the great investment would be in a mac running Shake. I've done something similiar to his project using a rental Canon XL1 and a mini 35 adaptor. Before the fire starts over SD vs HD, a properly edited, shot, scored, color corrected, sound mixed SD or HD short or feature will make no difference whatsoever   to the investor you're trying to get money from. Both of them have to decide, do I want to own a camera so I can call myself a director (or camera operator,) or do I really want to make movies and direct/produce. In my country we shoot an episode of afternoon soap opera for 5k. Cool slick visuals aside, but I think you both are looking at this the wrong way. Think "producing a movie" not think like a camera man. I also recommend you rent most of your production gear, since you will probably need them only during the short duration of your shooting days. Spend money on people, you'd be amazed how much acting improves with 200 bucks pay increase.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps this might sound a little odd, in Daniel&#8217;s plan I see absolutely no reason that he should own a camera, lights, dollies or any grip gear for that matter. Basically Daniel&#8217;s shooting a demo reel to show to investors, the delivery format for the demo reel will be on DVD. Which means, there&#8217;s still no reason to shoot in HD, save alot of computing power and storage by using HD. Since he&#8217;s going to compositing everything himself, the great investment would be in a mac running Shake. I&#8217;ve done something similiar to his project using a rental Canon XL1 and a mini 35 adaptor. Before the fire starts over SD vs HD, a properly edited, shot, scored, color corrected, sound mixed SD or HD short or feature will make no difference whatsoever   to the investor you&#8217;re trying to get money from. Both of them have to decide, do I want to own a camera so I can call myself a director (or camera operator,) or do I really want to make movies and direct/produce. In my country we shoot an episode of afternoon soap opera for 5k. Cool slick visuals aside, but I think you both are looking at this the wrong way. Think &#8220;producing a movie&#8221; not think like a camera man. I also recommend you rent most of your production gear, since you will probably need them only during the short duration of your shooting days. Spend money on people, you&#8217;d be amazed how much acting improves with 200 bucks pay increase.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Young</title>
		<link>http://www.joshoakhurst.com/2006/06/12/10000-indie-examples-hvx-vs-andromeda-vs-else/#comment-1062</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Young</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jun 2006 02:20:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joshoakhurst.com/?p=214#comment-1062</guid>
		<description>I think Pav's got it right. 
Director Robert Rodriguez has often said that every film maker has 2 or 3 terrible movies in him..."it's best to get them over with as quickly and cheaply as possable."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Pav&#8217;s got it right.<br />
Director Robert Rodriguez has often said that every film maker has 2 or 3 terrible movies in him&#8230;&#8221;it&#8217;s best to get them over with as quickly and cheaply as possable.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Jason Scott</title>
		<link>http://www.joshoakhurst.com/2006/06/12/10000-indie-examples-hvx-vs-andromeda-vs-else/#comment-1046</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jun 2006 07:15:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joshoakhurst.com/?p=214#comment-1046</guid>
		<description>Without turning this into a "yes no yes no" loop, I simply have to disagree. Industry Standard doesn't turn something into professional and leave all other applications in the dust. Everyone uses Microsoft Word, but a lot of us use Open Office 2.0 as well and are quite happy... even interoperable.

Vegas is a mature, high-quality product. "Professional" is, I still contend, a denigrating word, dismissing someone's choices and work. I am sure you don't mean it that way, but that's how you end up clogging the pipes in a discussion. Firing off "Vegas, Meh." achieves nothing but to divide people who should be in the same basic camp into highly divided ones that any director, screenwriter or non-editing crew member would be sneeringly nauseated by.

Do lighting people do this? Say that if you use one brand of lights you're not professional, or say there's only one real light in use out there? Do sound people do it with microphones or recorders?

It spins wheels instead of travelling forward. Let the Vegas people be aware they're not industry standard, but calling them not professional (which quickly contracts to "unprofessional") creates animosity out of thin air.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Without turning this into a &#8220;yes no yes no&#8221; loop, I simply have to disagree. Industry Standard doesn&#8217;t turn something into professional and leave all other applications in the dust. Everyone uses Microsoft Word, but a lot of us use Open Office 2.0 as well and are quite happy&#8230; even interoperable.</p>
<p>Vegas is a mature, high-quality product. &#8220;Professional&#8221; is, I still contend, a denigrating word, dismissing someone&#8217;s choices and work. I am sure you don&#8217;t mean it that way, but that&#8217;s how you end up clogging the pipes in a discussion. Firing off &#8220;Vegas, Meh.&#8221; achieves nothing but to divide people who should be in the same basic camp into highly divided ones that any director, screenwriter or non-editing crew member would be sneeringly nauseated by.</p>
<p>Do lighting people do this? Say that if you use one brand of lights you&#8217;re not professional, or say there&#8217;s only one real light in use out there? Do sound people do it with microphones or recorders?</p>
<p>It spins wheels instead of travelling forward. Let the Vegas people be aware they&#8217;re not industry standard, but calling them not professional (which quickly contracts to &#8220;unprofessional&#8221;) creates animosity out of thin air.</p>
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		<title>By: Pav at Shoot</title>
		<link>http://www.joshoakhurst.com/2006/06/12/10000-indie-examples-hvx-vs-andromeda-vs-else/#comment-1014</link>
		<dc:creator>Pav at Shoot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Jun 2006 06:55:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joshoakhurst.com/?p=214#comment-1014</guid>
		<description>I just shot a music video using the HVX200.  

As a working commercial/music video producer I was able to bring in an amazing crew at very low rates as a favor for an up and coming director and band.  

We rented all the equipment because a $6000 video camera does alot more when it comes with Prime lenses, 2x8gb cards, a firestore, full matte box, professional tripod, steadicam, remote head crane, 3 HD monitors etc.

Most of our budget went on crew, and talent, plus a decent amount on catering.  Pizza is for kids parties and football games.  Get breakfast, lunch and snacks and you're crew will not only be happier but have the energy to work better.

We also spent a large proportion paying an editor with a full edit suite to cut the video.

The two most important things for me as a producer is to get the most experienced crew and give them the best equipment to perform their job. Always work within you're budget.  We could have bought an edit system for close to what we were paying an editor, but an edit system does not come with 15 years of experience pre-loaded.

Just because you shoot HD doesn't mean that the project is worth being shot that way!

If you are starting out I would suggest using the following: Final Cut Express (or equivalent), a $350 DV camera, a cheap laptop.  Spend most of you're time in pre-production and experimenting.  Once you can tell a good story with these tools then think about going with more professional gear.

Lastly if you are going to spend a year raising money to make you're epic movie then take a little time out and work in the lowest position on a set.  That way you can watch what everyone does and learn how a real crew works.  All crew members love telling you stories of what they do and how they do it.  That experience is invaluable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just shot a music video using the HVX200.  </p>
<p>As a working commercial/music video producer I was able to bring in an amazing crew at very low rates as a favor for an up and coming director and band.  </p>
<p>We rented all the equipment because a $6000 video camera does alot more when it comes with Prime lenses, 2&#215;8gb cards, a firestore, full matte box, professional tripod, steadicam, remote head crane, 3 HD monitors etc.</p>
<p>Most of our budget went on crew, and talent, plus a decent amount on catering.  Pizza is for kids parties and football games.  Get breakfast, lunch and snacks and you&#8217;re crew will not only be happier but have the energy to work better.</p>
<p>We also spent a large proportion paying an editor with a full edit suite to cut the video.</p>
<p>The two most important things for me as a producer is to get the most experienced crew and give them the best equipment to perform their job. Always work within you&#8217;re budget.  We could have bought an edit system for close to what we were paying an editor, but an edit system does not come with 15 years of experience pre-loaded.</p>
<p>Just because you shoot HD doesn&#8217;t mean that the project is worth being shot that way!</p>
<p>If you are starting out I would suggest using the following: Final Cut Express (or equivalent), a $350 DV camera, a cheap laptop.  Spend most of you&#8217;re time in pre-production and experimenting.  Once you can tell a good story with these tools then think about going with more professional gear.</p>
<p>Lastly if you are going to spend a year raising money to make you&#8217;re epic movie then take a little time out and work in the lowest position on a set.  That way you can watch what everyone does and learn how a real crew works.  All crew members love telling you stories of what they do and how they do it.  That experience is invaluable.</p>
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