Episodic feature released for free to the internet? Sure, not groundbreaking, but as someone on their site commented, possibly the first DIY idea to warrant episodic roll-out.

And on a parting note, I don’t see this as apple to oranges. For all the press and billing as FEM has promoted itself as the “example [for] taking control and changing the indie distribution system”, I don’t actually see them as being self-reliant, at all.

Ryan and Zack of The West Side, on the other hand, are completely in control, and that’s why I married an editorial on these two pieces of art and commerce.

“Watch our entire film for free” Yes it is free for us to watch the film but they get paid. They are not just putting it out there and not getting paid, another company subsidizes that cost. Because a movie is on network television, it doesn’t mean a movie is free. It is available for free but they are not giving it away for free.

Arin and Susan might not be getting Weinstein to be calling them but if I were a studio head, it would be absolutely stupid of me not to take into account the FEM fan base. Every trendy Myspace kid knows these guys. A base of trendy people sounds like a good start.

In their early 20’s, these guys make a decent film, so much promise. Imagine how many doors they have opened along the way, how many people they have met. If I were a producer, I have to know this bodes well for the film.

Comparing West Side to FEM is silly. Apples and oranges. West Side is starting on their adventure. When it is all said and done, I am pretty sure someone can tear them a new one if they really try on all the things they did wrong. For FEM, the film is at the end of the cycle.

Of course, Arin wanted FEM to get picked up by mainstream media. They have been saying that from day one. But because of circumstance, they took another route. There is no malice here.

I do agree with you that the DVD should have been out much sooner. One of the questions that I asked them in the interview. I didn’t express this but I was shocked they were going to wait for the summer to release it (which they didn’t).

I am not sure I believe Arin when he says that there was no final cut as of yet. It could have been a cover up. But there is good possibility that like many filmmakers using digital video, they constantly see ways of improving their films. This isn’t like film where there is pressure to come out with a final print.

West Side releasing their podcasts online for free is distribution. But in no way can you call it a distribution model. “Distribution model” is a business term. Where is the money? You are painting West Side releasing their podcasts for free to be some new revolutionary business model. This has been the case for a long time wtih online video. What Spout did for FEM was different. I have never seen that before. Good chance, in time, West Side might have a similar pay off. But that is to come.

You also paint Arin as some sort of crybaby using sympathy to get what he wants. I am a fan of their work because of their video podcasts. Their first couple of episodes were incredible. The film showed so much promise. Everyone who sees the film says that. If they had made a shitty film and then went on to make shitty video podcasts, no one would have given a hoot.

Josh, you have always been very outspoken. You like to stir the pot. Something that I have personally enjoyed, as you know. But in this case, it amazes me that you attack Arin for showing little humility when you have shown nothing but arrogance. You wanted to promote West Side by calling the FEM people a bunch of sissyhead retards for not doing the right things with their work. It does a disservice to both West Side and FEM when you do that. In your last post, you have resorted to semi-personal attacks. A point can be made without resorting to all that.

Arin responds to my question Ego-Googling or trackbacks via email: trackbacks

ON THE GAP SWEATER GIRL
Normally I wouldn’t explain the jokes but I’m making an exception in this case. Arin, Conor Oberst is a talented artist with questionable taste, like yourself. For all his self deprecating, sympathy inducing wailing, he sure is a too-big-for-his-britches (but sensitive) loud-mouth, which is too bad.

FAN: “Hey Conor, dig your music!”
CONOR: [awkward] “…uh…cool, thanks. I hear that a lot.”
FAN: “I really think you’re neat”
CONOR: [into mic] “Fuck George Bush!!!!!”

ON YOUR BIO
Just ’cause someone else wrote it doesn’t make it read any less like you had penned it yourself. As your significant other and especially as co-director, Susan should never have let you get away with posting that, anywhere.

BUT MORE TO THE POINT:
I don’t buy for a second that Four Eyed Monsters - the film, the podcasts, the struggle, the relationship, the brand, all of it - was ever about community, or sharing, or helping other “Indies” learn until you knew you were screwed with the credit card debt.

“We Took One For The Team” ?
No fucking way, dude. You guys made a film that you wanted to get picked up by traditional distribution. You wanted the fame, the notoriety, the quick cash. You were passed over by distributors, then spent even more money courting them. If this was about “the greater good”, you would have released the film sooner, for free or otherwise. Once you had built a fanbase, if you really were interested in the filmmaking community, experimenting with a new promotional medium, and revealing your findings to everyone else at large, you would have released your film immediately, however you could.

You had a chance to earn money back on this after traditional distribution passed you over. When your podcasts were featured around the world in every press outlet imaginable, you COULD HAVE sold DVD’s on your website. DVD revenue not so hot now? YOU WAITED TOO LONG. You could have killed with DVD sales while everyone on MySpace was fawning over you.

Final edit of the film not finished? Not happy with the audio mix? You guys were featured on Apple’s “professionals with professional Apple tools” homepage; you telling me you couldn’t have finished a final edit, mixed the sound, and cut DVD’s in a month? You should have been selling DVD’s over the holidays of ‘05 and you’d be so far out of debt and into the black credit card companies would be fighting for your business.

Furthermore, statements like “film fests aren’t the answer”, besides lacking humility, are too broad to carry any meaning. Film fests aren’t the answer for whom? For your film? For what answer, for that matter?

Arin, your film was so bizzare/weird/MySpacey/unique that its not hard to understand why it was passed over for traditional distribution. It’s possible you’re too close to FEM to understand that.

I’m not even saying film fests ARE the answer, but you’re giving yourself too much credit by saying “we figured all this out!”

Do you deserve credit for introducing podcasts to fan building? I wouldn’t say you invented it, but you did a swell job and using them for promotion, brand building, and raising brand awareness. You were certainly first to receive any notoriety from video podcasting, but…..

You went $100K in debt to figure that out podcasting was cool, and you’ve openly admitted that wasn’t money you had to loose. This decision makes you seem kinda silly, and as much as I want to give you credit for anything, I have a hard time taking someone seriously who uses the term “mogul” in their bio - despite where the quote originated - considering the fact they live with their girlfriend’s parents.

–
Where The West Side is concerned, YES, there is a model here. They’re not fucking around with distribution, and they’re not worried about monetizing the brand. RBK and ZL are releasing the film for free, right off the bat. Before fans are concerned, before press has been received, before the damn thing is even finished, they’re using The West Side to creatively a.)Entertain, and b.) show off their skills as filmmakers.

As it stands, FEM only now shows up as a questionable attempt to show off creative skill, when obviously the first priority WAS SEEK THE MONEY.

You see the difference?

I don’t blame anyone for trying to seek funds from their art so they may continue creating art. Maybe the West Side guys will someday release their film to new mediums and capitalize off the rights. That’s not bad.

FEM, seeking traditional distribution is not bad either. But after you didn’t get a deal, Arin, you can’t now come back looking for sympathy from your fans or peers on how much debt you’re in.

MORE-FREAKIN-OVER
What the hell did you guys spend $100K on? One thing’s for certain, it’s not on the screen.

$100K is a nice round number. But is that for production costs? Production and distribution? Marketing? Is there an itemized breakdown anywhere? How much airfare is included in that debt? Again I’ll ask, how many ironic t-shirts? How many days have you guys worked (answering emails and checking trackback links don’t count) in the last 3 and a half years? Are you working now? In the future? Any job, either of you, doing anything else bringing in any revenue at all? Help me understand, as a filmmaker benefiting from your research, what it is I could expect from $100K in credit card debt.

And Ajit, where do the names Crumley and Buice carry weight. I honestly want to know. Is Harvey Weinstein taking their phone calls? Anyone from Thinkfilm? Does the NY Film and Television office zip their permits through? Arin, do you get in free to clubs? Free flyer printing at the local Kinkos (they’re evil, too, right?) Kickbacks from MySpace bands begging you to use their songs?

I’m not asking to be a dick, but if we are to believe that FEM was “an open experiment into indie filmmaking and online promotion” (my quotes), what kind of weight can the rest of us expect to pull from a $100K investment?

FEM/SPOUT DEAL
Ajit, how am I telling a “white lie”? The big, bold headline at FEM.com says “Watch our entire film for free - or buy DVD”

FEM has been released FOR FREE on the internet. Signing up for Spout is not a requirement of watching the feature film. Even knowing what happens at Spout.com is not a requirement of watching the feature film (Spout is like the user reviews at Netflix minus the DVD’s-in-the-mail-thing. To Spout’s marketing department: you’re welcome).

For your financial sake, I hope the Spout deal works out for you, Arin(/Susan). Am I sympathetic?

[cricket sounds. millions of them, or possibly, just a hundred thousand.]

Lacking the humility FEM has displayed, what I’D CALL BOLD FACE WHITE LIES (”We pioneered a lot of things. We took one for the team!”), and still wondering how many business worthy trips are included in that debt - at this point, I’d rather sign up for Spout and have my favor-donation go to George W. Bush, and you know, he’s like bad and stuff.

It’s OK, Arin, I’ll still be your MySpace friend.

I honestly don’t know much about FEM except that it wasn’t my type of thing, and that’s OK. Any success you get reflects well on everyone who’s out doing basically the same thing. So, thank you for that. And I do wish you both well.

I also think it’s a bit egotistical to claim you made up something like using podcasts to promote a movie. That’s disingenuous (or some other big word). Lots of other people were doing the same thing before and while you were- you guys just happened to get the heat from your efforts. Maybe you did it better, or maybe you happened to be in the right place at the right time. Splitting hairs? Maybe. But every millimeter counts.

When MP3s got huge there was a band called Fischer that got some real buzz from MP3.com and other websites. Their music was OK, nothing to write home about but definitely OK. They ended up fizzling out, sadly, instead of blowing up huge. And instead of the Fischer thing getting labels to find new acts online, their success merely made the huge corporate labels rethink how they promoted their existing corporate acts. That sucked.

I am hopeful that this time around we- that includes FEM, Josh, The West Side guys, and myself along with all other indie film people- get to partake of the spoils of revolution a bit more. I don’t have the answers yet, and neither do any of you. But then again, neither do the big studios. Yet.

I’ll address your response with one of my own, but first I have to ask you one question: How’d you find this blog post; was it through trackbacks or ego-Googling? If through trackbacks, that’s cool, but if you were out ego-Googling I may have to give you more shit before we continue.

–
Ajit, don’t be coy with me….

Let’s not forget that in many ways Four Eyed Monsters did a lot of things right. The tradition of promoting independent movies by using video podcasts should be properly attributed to them. Of all they failures they did face, they all achieved a lot. The name Arin Crumley and Susan Brice have their power. They might be in debt now but I doubt that will be the case for too long.

Also, The West Side (which I am excited about) is not a proven buisness model. I am not sure you or even Ryan even know what it is. So to compare the non-existent business model to the one that Arin and Susan made up is kinda strange.

Asking for money is not a bad thing. Art has been served not just by industry but my patrons.

And like Arin says, you did fail to mention the Spout deal which I think is not just unfair but is a white lie. The film isn’t just being released online for free but instead a company has decided to pay them to offer them for free so that they can promote their goods. Sounds good to me.

I am looking forward to The West Side but let us not tear down FEM for doing what they did at a time where there was no roads paved.

Talking too much on lances podcast, I know, I have a problem, I talk too much, and it pisses susan on off and I exhaust interviewers, I’m working on it.

My “self penned Bio”, actually, it was written by Roger Ingraham, filmmaker behind Moonshine which was in Sundance 2006.

Giving the film away for free. Dude, seriously, why are you ignoring our Spout deal. We’ve made 34K giving our film away for “free”, thats more then DVD sales, more then theatrical profits, the most lucrative thing we’ve done to date, and I’m pretty sure by August 15th we’ll get to 100K and trust me, we’ll stop bitching about the debt at that point. Sorry we bitch so much, but it’s really a weight on our lives, do you know what it’s like to have another minimum due payment every couple days constantly calling, asking for the ability to delay a payment, explaining why you missed one. It’s completely fucked. And keep in mind, we didn’t just make a movie, we pioneered a lot of things. It’s been a 3 and a half year project. And everything we’ve done we’ve done fully. We are part of the reason we can all now know that film festivals are not the answer. If we didn’t give it our all, we wouldn’t have known that.

So listen, I’m super excited about all the projects that are going to take a financially smarter approach then we did. But we all benefit from the experiments that each of us does. So in a way, we sort of took one for the team, which we don’t mind, because, like I said, with the spout thing, the debt will work it’s self out.

Career filmmakers. It’s not really the point. I mean, hey, if the world wants another film out of us, it will happen. We made one, we want shrivel up and die if we don’t make another. We have another film, shit, we have 5 other films, but I don’t want to be making films just for a career, I’d like to do it for the substance and content.

DVDs not being for sale form day 1. Listen, the version we uploaded to YouTube was the final cut. We had earlier edits that we showed at film festivals, but we weren’t creatively happy with it. Also, we now know that when you sell DVDs online, as we have been, you don’t really sell that many. So to have been putting out copies of our movie that didn’t have a final edit and audio mix we were happy with wouldn’t have felt rigth creatively and I don’t think that the act of doing that would have gotten us out of debt.

Now that said, yes, the next time, DVDs will be on sale from day one and that was a mistake from a business perspective.

And by the way. We’ve made every mistake imaginable. I mean, we are not perfect. We have our own internal demons that sometimes pull us way, way off track. So should we be hero’s, no. But what we should be is an example of some things that do work, and some things that don’t work. And if every one keeps creating these examples, we’ll soon know what the new model is.

Actually, I think I already know what it might look like, but the world unfortunately isn’t ready for the new model, so all we have are these word distorted discombobulated models. But again, we all have to keep experimenting, so thats good.

Sorry I’ve pissed you off man, it’s fair, I know I bother certain people, I sort of bother myself too, so I’m with you in some regards.
Arin

I’d eat my words if they seemed any closer to making a 2nd/next film, but after all the press and all that money spent, how much closer are they to being career directors? Making a 2nd film? Getting distribution?

For a long time I was FEM agnostic and I kept hearing/seeing them complain about being passed over for distribution like it was their RIGHT. Like “they couldn’t believe no one wanted to pickup the film!!!” They spent all that money after all! They traveled to film fests! MySpace loved them! People wrote them emails!

The only point I was trying to make with FEM was that, in the end, with all the debt they incurred and DESPITE their brand explosion, brilliant podcast promotional tools, and unique and or creative vision, their end result was that they released their film on the internet, for free, anyway.

Personally, I also feel that Arin seems more concerned with being infront of the camera, than behind; a strange instance for a director with vision. If you don’t know what I’m talking about, see:

1.) This Conference Is Being Recorded Podcast With Lance Weiler at the Workbook Project. Lance only asks two questions in a 35 minute time period, the rest of it is Arin talking and talking and talking and talking. By the end you can tell even Susan is miffed with him and Lance ends the interview because he’s exhausted.
LINK

2.) Arin’s self penned bio available at the end of several articles he’s written
read under the pic

3.) Arin’s comments to a youtuber who video responded to FEM. The gal gave them a ton of praise and his response was to say “BTW, ehhh…Gap not such a good company to support.” b/c she was at home, in her pajamas, wearing a 10 year old sweatshirt. My immediate thought was, “Dude, Arin - who died and made you Connor Oberst?”
LINK

You can’t argue the artistic success of their brand building - financial success is obviously another story. The failure of Crumley and Buice to monetize FEM is not an issue for me, but their incessant pursuit of such funds and “victim” mentality irks me.

—
As far as being Jewish goes, comedians on the television told me that being Jewish can be helpful when it comes to matters of financing and entertainment. Not to be outdone, the Mormons have a few tricks up their sleeves as well (Napoleon Dynamite), and the Evangelical Christians even started their own studio (Walden Media).

Myself, I’m atheist, and while I’m not to sure of any perceived financial benefit as such, rest assured, I’m not so proud as to turn down any offers, should they arise.